New loot system - FAQ

General

k3szii — 11/29/2024 12:33 PM [318👍]
Are you going to introduce separate luck factors for normal and hard instances?

Currently not but we are not ruling out doing so in the future if it proves necessary (based on the drop data on a server-wide scale). Present situation lets players strategically decide which instance they will visit depending on their no-drop series. This is a desired effect because it allows to maximize potential gains for the players who are most dedicated and plan their gameplay.

DepeChe — 11/29/2024 12:33 PM [225👍]
Is my drop influenced in any way by someone else in the party dropping?

No, it is not influenced at all. Each event is processed separately so (from player A’s perspective) a situation in which there was no drop for the whole party is equal to a situation in which player A did not have a drop while the rest of the party had one.

Zalla — 11/29/2024 1:15 PM [123👍]
Together with implementing ornaments, you added the division into easy/normal/hard instances. There was no information that the higher the rank of the gear, the chance for more ornaments decreases. It was confirmed only recently by Hania. Why is this system in place? Why did the reform not remove it to encourage party play?

The system works only for rares rank X+ and its purpose is to limit the amount of high-ornament gear of these ranks (including shards from them). We wanted the best gear in the game to require some dedication to make perfect. Increasing the droprate of high level gear with a high number of stars would shorten this process too much.

Why, despite the daimonite system giving guaranteed items, wasn’t it implemented in more places (e.g. we kill Tarul with 5 people, we get 5 item packs, the mage and archer die and we get only 3 packs)?

We didn’t want to cut “surplus” rewards when a party member dies. This situation isn’t that frequent and we don’t think it requires a dedicated solution. After all, you can just share the loot after killing the boss, right? 🙂
As for the guaranteed drop of items from bosses or trash - this isn’t something we want to implement in every instance. This system, despite players feeling they are treated “fairly”, carries serious economical risks, including oversupply of utility items.

Why was loot from Tarul nerfed (fewer utility items like essences, inhibitors, gold), V2 was boosted (by adding sentries) but no changes were made to the most profitable solo instance in the game - Admiral? If you wanted to encourage us to party play by making changes to the loot system, why was the profit gap between Admiral and Tarul widened?

The most “drastic” changes to Tarul were about gold generation (on the Path of Adventure), and gold and Tracks of Terror (Path of Challenge). Of course, only if by “drastic” we mean a nerf by about 20%. The large amount of gold the instance generated was one of the sources of inflation and that’s something we want to address whenever we get the chance. The number of utility items is similar to before, because Tarul, as one of very few instances, has guaranteed loot from every mob group. We just changed the proportions to keep a better balance between the rewards.
The changes to V2 were made to make the completion time more equal between mental-based classes and ranged/melee based classes. Another goal was to eliminate “taxi” possibilities for mental-based classes. Senties, apart from getting a new group member, had their damage nerfed, they attack less frequently, and their HP has been lowered, so the overall instance balance should be the same. The number of rewards wasn’t changed.
The profitability of Admiral depends mostly on the value of Tracks of Terror, which can be looted in the instance. By reducing the amount of gold on the server, we hope for their price to decrease, so the profitability of the instance will decrease as well. It’ll still be a great source of income, but it’s worth noting that the threshold where you can effectively solo the instance is much higher than a Tarul in a party, so it doesn’t affect the economy of the server as much. In addition to that, the profits from Admiral come mostly from trading between players, so its effects on inflation are limited.

Why is it that some instances, like hard Tarul, have different loot than the normal version but most instances stay the same? Are there any plans to make changes not just to “colored” items and daimonite so that higher difficulty levels provide something different?

The goal of this diversification was making the loot more varied and letting players choose which Path they’d rather follow so that there’s no single source of acquiring all utility items needed for the endgame. Tarul was the ideal place to add variation due to the guaranteed loot system from almost every mob group in the instance. Will we create more such spots in the future? It's a possibility.

Will you make another overhaul of the loot system to address many reported issues, the availability of rares from Wendigo or Great Hawk, tracks, flask crafting materials?

We’ll surely continue to make changes to address the most pressing issues. However, we don’t have a set time or scope for this yet.

Why is progress towards guaranteed loot increasing the same when soloing and in a party? Where’s promoting party play?

The main objective of playing in a party is undertaking challenges and overcoming obstacles that a solo player can’t overcome. If there are no such challenges, any system promoting party play won’t be 100% effective. The guaranteed drop is not a system meant for encouraging party play, it’s meant to put an end to long series without loot.

Are you planning events related to the drop system, e.g. guaranteed lot from a given boss every X kills?

At the moment, we have no events like this in the calendar, but drop-related events may happen in the future.

Did you consider, in order to distribute loot more fairly and reduce RNG, decreasing the droprate of items and instead making the luck factor increase faster to guarantee drops? [20👍]

We didn’t. A system of guaranteed loot is not a standard in every instance and luck factor increases with every boss you kill within the group.

Did you plan any other solutions, apart from the luck factor, guaranteed drop, and party bonus, to improve loot rates that weren’t implemented into the game? Do you have another system in mind that you’d like to add in the future (and why didn’t you add it now)?

Yes, we want to improve the system generating and evaluating utility items to make the distribution more fair. We didn’t manage to add it in this update, but it’s possible it’ll come later.

YahaY/Jarek — 11/29/2024 12:46 PM [83👍]
Why are you shadownerfing drops? There are visibly fewer drops from Constructs v2, fewer drifs from Tit etc. (see a clip by Kojott where he shows a summary every time he kills 200 Tits - it’s a good comparison base).

The amount of dropped gear and artifacts (drifs) has been adjusted so that its overall amount is on the same level as before the change. Currently, the data from servers shows that the droprate of gear in the whole game increased slightly (by 0.25 percentage point). Drop rate on the instances designed for parties, but in current meta frequented by solo players, went down a little (by 0.15 percentage points) which is the result of changes in bonuses for additional party members. We are constantly keeping an eye on the situation and we will react if anything is out of order. Drop rates of utility items in instances not included in the changelog (Construct v2 among others) did not change.

Brodacz — 11/29/2024 1:58 PM [35👍]
Why is it that for almost the whole first week epics were easy to come by and during the following week, hmm, you see for yourselves. Is this some kind of WM’s ploy to make players believe that the new system really exists?

The drop of epics is very irregular and usually it is a result of players’ activity. After the update we noticed a significant increase in the number of logged players and bosses killed, which resulted in a large number of epics on the server. Interestingly, it wasn’t a record-breaking week in the history of the game - there were better weeks with more epics.

Kvviatek — 11/29/2024 12:33 PM
How come I got no drop after killing 10 Toads and 10 Puppet Masters, while my friend goes through some random instance twice and immediately gets a rare?

The drops are RNG-based.The aim of all the changes we introduced is to eliminate the most unlucky series rather than curb the most fortunate ones.

ReadyLuke — 11/29/2024 12:49 PM [45👍]
Why, even with the guaranteed drops, are players with a similar number of bosses killed still getting significantly fewer drops than others?

The number of bosses after which a guaranteed drop is granted is set so that a player receives one after a streak of bad luck (at least a couple dozens of bosses killed without a rare). The gear dropped during a regular draw has nothing to do with this system and situations where there are differences in number of drops among players with the same number of enemies killed will be still occuring.

fladen — 11/29/2024 12:33 PM [74👍]
3 drops per 223 instances - is this a normal result?

It is perfectly normal.

Platynowaty — 11/30/2024 10:16 AM [3👍]
Does the moment when the timer of the last round of combat is clicked have any impact on the generation of a drop for the given player? Is it better to click it as soon as it appears, or is it irrelevant?

It is irrelevant for generating a drop. Player’s click marks their readiness for the next round. At the end of a round data packet reaches the server where a calculation regarding the upcoming round takes place. The generation of a drop is a completely independent functionality.

Paweu — 11/30/2024 6:08 PM [23👍]
Are you going to show, just for a couple of days, those mythic drop bars to prove that you’re not doing you know what? If they’re real, show them. Nor for ever, but just for a week.

Bars like this do not exist in a graphic form, and all ‘luck bars’ are a collection of numbers individual for each player, that are applied by various functions that calculate a drop chance. So, no, we are not going to show them.

Radian — 11/29/2024 12:58 PM
Do factors such as server time, platinum purchases, individual playtime and admin/mod/staff intervention, affect the quality or quantity of drops in any way possible?

Playtime, definitely yes - the more time a player spends on the game, the more bosses they will kill, so they will have a greater chance of getting a drop 🙂 But it doesn’t affect the calculated drop chance anyhow, same as the other factors.

baloczi — 11/29/2024 12:33 PM [188👍]
Why is there no guaranteed chance for an epic drop?

We treat epics as special rewards and we want acquisition of such gear to be something unique. By introducing a guaranteed epic drop we risk killing this uniqueness. What’s more, such a solution may, in the long run, significantly disturb the balance of supply and demand for this type of gear. Introducing a guaranteed drop threshold will result in a large number of players obtaining epics at the same time, which will result in significant periodic oversupply. These cycles will be repeating causing rapid price fluctuations. Currently, epic drops are more balanced, which results in a statistically more stable market value of these items.

Tatowow — 11/29/2024 12:33 PM [345👍]
Has the base chance for a rare or drif drop been lowered?

The droprate has been adjusted for all new bonuses present in the game: bonus for playing with a party, bonus for a series without a drop. There are places where drop has been slightly lowered (instances designed for parties), but there are also those where it has been increased (instances designed for solo players). However, differences in the BASE (without bonuses) drop are no higher than +/- 20% when compared to the state before the update, which, considering all the abovementioned bonuses, gives a slightly higher droprate than the one before the change (in a server-wide scale).

Mew-Gon Sigm — 11/29/2024 12:36 PM [176👍]
Has the 30% bonus for party size made the chance higher than before the update, or is the new +30% the old +0%?

The current 30% bonus for party size is higher than the old 0%.

rockyyy — 11/29/2024 12:39 PM [53👍]
Why at Tarul two Tracks of Terror are equal to Emperors?
Why are there still situations where one person gets two Tracks from a boss and another gets nothing? Would it be possible to guarantee the drop of at least 1 track per person from each normal instance? [75👍]
NightUllr — 11/29/2024 5:59 PM [8👍]
According to Whitemoon, is the drop of 100 ducats with value of 435k (on Thanar) equal in value to 1 Track of Terror (890k-950k) and 30 essences (47k each)?
Why is it that items dropped from Tarul’s instance more fairly before the reform than after it despite the fact it was supposed to make loot more fair?

Before the reform, they were dropping even more irregularly and unfairly, that’s why we changed the contents of packages across all of Tarul’s instance. We wanted for their values to be closer to make the rewards each player gets more fair. In the update, we focused mostly on improving the distribution of rares, sets, epics, and artifacts. Utility items (like tracks, essences, ducats) didn’t receive a dedicated system that would calculate their market value and distribute them evenly based on it. Such a feature may be implemented in the future.

YahaY/Jarek — 11/29/2024 12:46 PM [83👍]
Since there are now two sentries, why don’t they drop two Dielectrics?

There are two sentries but they are weaker than before. There’s no rule in the game that the number of items dropping should be equal to the number of mobs.

zptRee — 11/29/2024 12:50 PM [27👍]
Why did you go for expanding an RNG system instead of giving players more passive income, like shards, essences, etc.? It’s a known fact that with RNG, someone will always feel harmed which may lead to frustration and discouragement.

Basing the drop of the most valuable items on RNG is something that works really well on the most dedicated players. RNG, despite its randomness, provides emotions and the spirit of competition. A passive system would make things more predictable, which would make the game more monotonous and less immersive.
In addition to that, overabundance of utility items in the game leads to depreciation. This, in turn, lowers their value when trading and may lead to oversupply on the market (which would hurt their price and the profitability of instances). In order to decrease the chance for an unlucky series without drops, we added valuable loot with a relatively high drop chance, e.g. synergetics and drifs.

!MarneSzanse — 11/29/2024 1:04 PM [61👍]
Do all the rares from a boss have the same drop chance? E.g. I kill Sidraga, is the chance to loot Voglers and Gift the same?

The loot chance of gear from a single boss may be different.

MiroMaro — 11/29/2024 1:37 PM [15👍]
How does the game evaluate the “quality” of items in the window where the best gear/artifacts are shown?

In both windows, the theoretical value of a piece of gear/artifact is calculated and, based on this, the items are sorted in the window. In the case of rares, the decisive factors are: type and rank, number of ornaments, and durability. In the case of artifacts: size and category. Based on formulas that take into account all these parameters, the final value is calculated. This value is, of course, a matter of convention and, depending on the meta and time, the value of the loot may be different from the one seen on, e.g. the marketplace, but the purpose of this feature is to show more or less the most valuable piece of gear looted in a given period.

Lazur — 11/29/2024 2:20 PM [21👍]
Are loot chance different for every instance? E.g. lower in faster instances (Tit) and higher in long ones (Commander).

Loot chances differ between instances. Usually, the ones meant for a full party or with longer duration have higher droprates.

Bourrasque — 11/29/2024 2:28 PM [10👍]
Why are the droprates still hidden? Making changes to the system was a great opportunity to finally reveal them, especially that they are known to the most experienced players.

We want players to determine the profitability of instances/bosses themselves - this increases engagement and rewards the most inquisitive players.

YT:PiecyQ — 11/29/2024 3:05 PM [16👍]
Does the change to the loot system also apply when soloing bosses?

It works in every instance, but solo players won’t see the party bonus.

OazaSmutku — 11/29/2024 3:52 PM [11👍]
Does the loot reform aim to eliminate/discourage people from solo play and encourage them to play in a party?

Some aspects of these changes were meant to improve the quality of party play (e.g. party bonus), but the aim of the reform was never to eliminate or discourage people from soloing.

luckymichi — 11/29/2024 4:41 PM [14👍]
Are you going to improve loot chances in instances with a time limit, e.g. Aqua Regis or Selena?
Are you going to scale the loot chance with the cost to enter?
All the instances with a time limit or an expensive entry have a much higher droprate than fast and cheap instances. At the moment, we have no plan to increase the droprate on any of them. The disproportions of loot that may sometimes appear are usually the result of small sample sizes.

Bangs — 11/29/2024 11:19 PM [9👍]
Did you think about changing the system of looting tracks to make it similar to daimonite? E.g. 5 tracks drop from Morana and each party member gets one

This system wouldn’t work, because it’d assume that the chance for a track is 100% and the number of chances is equal to the number of party members. In reality, these values are different depending on the boss. However, we may implement changes to track availability in the future.

Luck Factor

✪ Adanos — 11/29/2024 12:33 PM [190👍]
Is the luck factor proportionately influenced by instances’ difficulty levels?
Flip — 11/29/2024 12:40 PM [74👍]
Do higher instances increase the luck factor / guaranteed drop faster?

The pace at which the luck factor increases is dependent on the base chance for a drop in the given instance, including bonuses (for player level, number or players in the party etc.). So, in general, path of discovery instances will be increasing it at a lower pace (as the drop chance is adjusted to up to two party members) while the path of challenge will be doing it faster (because level bonus is usually higher than on the other paths).
The guaranteed drop chance increases at the same pace within an instance group regardless of its difficulty.

barbazosz — 11/29/2024 12:34 PM [126👍]
Can the luck factor be made visible for a player?

We decided against this solution to avoid players being excluded from instances because of their luck factors being too high (resulting in their individual chances for a drop being the highest) or too low (they do not contribute a sufficient amount of factor to the drop).

✪ Adanos — 11/29/2024 12:35 PM [83👍]
To what level does the incrementally increasing chance for a rare for each empty boss increase? If you can’t be specific, then does it increase until it is guaranteed, or is there a threshold?
Zgroza — 11/29/2024 12:45 PM [32👍]
Can you tell, in theory, how fast the luck factor increases in an example? Let’s say I’m level 100, I killed 100 Tits and my drop chance is +100%, I am level 140, I killed 100 Tits and my drop chance is +25%. Maybe the difference for high level players is so low and that’s why we don’t feel it? Can Htaga receive a separate luck factor? He drops well and resetting the factor there is pointless. It’s empty in other places, then there’s another drop from Htaga and, again, nothing for another 3 days.

Drop bonus increases until +25% and reaches this maximum value after a series of about a couple dozen killed bosses without a drop (the specific amount of kills and the pace of filling the “luck factor” are dependent on the base drop chance for the particular boss, including drop bonuses). Each player in the party contributes their own bonus dependent on their series without a drop. These bonuses sum up to a threshold of 65% for the whole party.
The guaranteed drop is another system and its boundaries do not influence the bonus chance for a drop in any way.

ventav. — 11/29/2024 12:39 PM [123👍]
After how many bosses killed is drop a certainty?
SłabyMosiek — 11/29/2024 1:03 PM [52👍]
Should we see guaranteed drop, as it is written in the changelog, after dozens of bosses, or rather hundreds of them?

The number depends on the group of bosses and player’s level. It usually takes a couple dozens of them (except for the so-called “tier 3” bosses, so all the ones dropping gear rank VII-IX, in their case the number is two times higher than in other groups as these bosses are being farmed en mass in short periods of time by large numbers of players, including end-game characters).

SayoPokko — 11/29/2024 12:43 PM [92👍]
Does the luck factor for an epic increase when fighting in weaker instances?

The luck factor for epics increases with each enemy killed that can potentially drop an epic but does not drop it. However, and it needs to be stressed, it does not increase the base chance to drop an epic - it only influences its distribution in the party IF it is dropped at all. Those with a higher factor will have a better chance of being picked for the drop.

Neptun — 11/29/2024 12:44 PM [109👍]
Is the luck factor separate for sub, bi, magni and arch drifs? If so, does each drif type have a separate one?
How does the luck factor work in the case of sets? Is it shared with rares in the given rank range or tracked separately? Is there such a thing as a guaranteed drop for sets, too? If so, then is the number of champions killed to reach that threshold higher, lower, or the same as for rares?
No, for drifs the factor is shared, but doesn’t always reset after a drif drops. The amount of points by which the factor is reduced depends on the intensity of the acquired drif.
Sets have their own, separate, luck factor and it has nothing to do with that used for rares. Like in the case of drifs, it is not reset and does not influence the base chance for a drop of a set. Sets, epics, and drifs do not have a guaranteed drop.

ArabNinja — 11/29/2024 12:56 PM [32👍]
Does the luck factor influence the quality of dropped drifs? For example, are we getting a sub instead of a bi?

No, it does not influence it.

smyciu — 11/29/2024 1:15 PM [26👍]
How does the luck factor work in the case of drifs? Does having a rank 2 arch amad dropped decreases a chance for finding a rank 4 arch band?

The luck factor for drifs has no influence on their base drop rate. It only influences their distribution in the party when a drif is dropped. After, for example, an arch amad is dropped, a certain amount of points is deducted from the factor that corresponds to a drif of this size and category.

Mosder — 11/29/2024 1:10 PM [14👍]
Is the luck factor split among boss ranks only for rares, or is it for each drop type (i.e. is there one common factor for all epics, or are there separate ones for ranks I-III, IV- VI etc.).

Yes, the split is there only for rares.

Rerafyaw — Yesterday at 9:35 AM [10👍]
Are you planning to introduce an indication that we received a drop due to the luck factor (in %) or because of a guaranteed drop?

We have no such plans at the moment.

Venezus — 11/29/2024 12:35 PM [275👍]
Why do engineers have access to the luck meter and are playing this game (they see when to enter the right instance) while regular players do not have access to it?

Neither the engineers, nor any other employees who play the game can see the luck factor.

BALLADX — 11/29/2024 12:35 PM [207👍]
Is it certain that each type of item has a separate luck factor? Is, for example, a dropped synergetic, NOT influencing a drop of a rare in any way?

It is certain. Types of factors are as it was described in the announcement.

ZmierZły — 11/29/2024 3:13 PM [20👍]
How true is it that a dropped synergetic resets the chance for a rare drop? If it’s true, then why does a drop of a lower-ranked item influence a drop of a higher-ranked one?

It’s just a rumor. The generation of rares takes place before the generation of synergetics, so the two systems have nothing to do with each other.

Sofo — 11/29/2024 2:30 PM [32👍]
Why does the luck factor reset every time we drop instead of getting decreased based on the orbs, ornaments, etc.?

It’s a possible solution (we applied a similar one to sets and drifs), but we treated rares as the most valuable and emotion-inducing items. That’s why we decided the system would reset your points (no matter the quality of the gear) and the only division would be the rank group. If we see that the current system is inefficient, we’ll make further changes to improve it. For now, we’ll be observing the results.

ordonnateur — 11/29/2024 3:33 PM
Is the bonus shared between chars of the account ?

No, it isn’t.

UI

zard — 11/29/2024 2:28 PM [54👍]
Are you going to show the number of bosses defeated since the last drop of a RARE?

Raffallo — 11/29/2024 12:45 PM [60👍]
Can you add filters to the list of looted items to see the time of the last drop for the filters set?

We wanted to implement this, but it turned out to heavily affect performance of the window. For a player, this would mean it would become really laggy. For now, we decided not to implement this.